Q: Are you satisfied with the parameters set by the constitution in our country for the different institutions including judiciary?
A: The parameters set for the judiciary needs reform. One of the parameter set by the constitution states that, there should be Supreme judicial council, which was constituted during Musharraf's regime. Judges assessment, monitoring and appointment are very important and these appointments should not be on political basis. Supreme judicial council should be there to appoint judges and should not depend on the government alone. |
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Q: Which government system do you think is the best for Pakistan: Parliamentary or Presidential?
A: Parliamentary system is better than presidential because, in presidential system only one man has the authority. The system depends on the honesty of the people. Unfortunately, our whole system has been aggravated. |
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Q: Why our courts take extra ordinary long time in settling most of the cases? How can we avoid the delay in justice?
A: Basically, several efforts have been made in this regard. Rule of law is missing. Delay will be there until and unless government won't take justice system as their priority. None of the government gives importance to rule of law; they only do personality oriented work. Working of courts will be better, if the rule of law will be maintained. Nobody look into the problems of litigants. Our criminal justice system is very confused, there are many procedures and no efforts have been done so far, to reduce those procedures. Most of the investigation is faulty so, it is not only court, police is also responsible. No efforts have been made to improve police performance. We are living in a deteriorated system. All over the world, cases which don't have evidence are discarded, even our religion asks for evidence. Our judicial system is exploited. No legal aid is provided on the government level. The responsible for this delay are those who are the part of this system, who legislates and sits in the parliament. We are just the part of the system. We are the instruments of the machine and there is a need to change the machine. There is no access to justice, the prisoners are not brought to courts, and court moharars are faulty, due to which cases go in pending. There is no use of blaming lawyers or magistrates only. |
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Q: The standard of legal education in Pakistan is up to the mark or does it need improvement?
A: Law education needs lot of reforms. It should be practical while, here in Pakistan, it is theoretical. Law education here is superfluous and absurd. |
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Q: Do you think its right to uplift the ban on the student union in the colleges and universities?
A: I have a different view in this regard. There should be a student union at college and university level. Government should tell the code of conduct to the head of the political parties. After signing the code of conduct, the parties can proceed further. At college and university level students should be politically aware. It was Zia ul Haq who banned the students and labour union. If there is no violence then it is not a bad activity. The implementation of law should be proper. Universities and colleges are the nurseries of politics. We lack leadership because, Zia ul Haq banned students' union. Nobody emerged as a great leader since then. There is a great need to aware people. I am greatly in favour of positive politics. |
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Q: Times to time amendments are made in Hudood Ordinance. Would you please tell us about its authority and authenticity?
A: Hudood Ordinance has four parts: Zinna ordinance, robberies, drugs and Qazaf. It is an undemocratic law; it has not been approved by the parliament or any religious scholar. One ordinance brought in four laws. It was introduced by Zia ul Haq, by his will and this ordinance brought in so many controversies. We opposed this law and demanded to repeal it. Time to time different governments instead of repealing it amends it. The true spirit of law is missing. The basic purpose was to eradicate corruption but, we don't witness any change. It supports feudalism only. In tribal and feudal societies they look at women and children as their property. This law was made to crush the minorities. I have handled victims' cases and I can tell you, how the people are being exploited. I am totally against Huddod ordinance, it should be repealed and normal law should be implemented properly. |
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Q: Whom do you blame for the corruption in Pakistan? Is it system, bureaucracy, poverty, politicians, unemployment or what?
A: Pakistan's major problem is whether the government is democratic or military, no one ever talked about institution building and when there is no institution building, then things revolves around personalities and a personality can be either good or bad. In the beginning Musharraf was progressive and later, due to his wrong policies, he became unpopular. We need an institution in order to eradicate corruption. On the school and college level there should be proper monitoring mechanism and rule of law. When our people go to Dubai, they follow the rules and regulations but here same people commit crime because, they know that they won't be punished or caught. |
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Q: Lawyers and Judges are being threatened since many years. Do you think in the current scenario, government has provided you enough security?
A: No one in Pakistan is secure. Our people were murdered, burnt to death but, we didn't step back. Government has not provided any kind of security to us. We are mad people who are madly associated with our campaign. It's our passion and we don't think about security or any other thing. |
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Q: Do you believe that, law should be made a part of curriculum in school and colleges other then law colleges because; our nation doesn't know their basic rights?
A: No, I don't think so that law should be taught as a subject at school level but, environmental laws, public nuisance, animal rights should be included in the curriculum. We have laws for criminal rights, smoking also but, people are not aware. |
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Q: How would you comment on the way Chief Justice Iftikhar M. Chaudhry and his legal counsels ran their campaign? Didn't it take a political shape?
A: Basically, it is non political, it is the movement of collective rights and for the first time in the history, this movement has shaken the whole world. Whatever we have achieved so far is phenomenal. I am a part of this campaign. When this movement started, I left my office for three months and I was on the road. It was our passion to be a part of such a campaign which can bring change. Lawyers are non political, they have not gained anything. I agree that there are positive and negative aspects in any campaign but, to term it political is wrong. It was due to our movement that the leaders who were exiled and could not enter the country came back, elections held, Musharraf resigned and people got to know more about judiciary. Lawyers' movement played a major role in developing democratic forces. Our target is yet to be achieved, to restore Chief Justice. In Nepal lawyers protested in front of Pakistan embassy for us. The lawyers have faced military trial in 1983, during Zia ul Haq regime. We have been kept in solitary confinement. We had sacrificed at that time too. Our movement will keep on progressing. We just want rule of law. |
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Q: Most of the time police violate the laws and it acts beyond limits. Do we need reforms in this department or should leave it as it is?
A: When institutions are formed, they need monitoring and proper system. Their appointments are based on money. Majority of our police is criminal and they even have criminal records. They torture their wives like they torture criminals in jails. They use third degree method for torture because; there is no proper monitoring system. They think that, if they have worn uniform they can violate any law. Several policemen have been found involved in robberies, snatching. We need reforms in this department but, for that we should have a proper system. |
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Q: How do you see the Human Rights conditions in Pakistan especially for Women?
A: It's worst. Women and children are most oppressed class in our country. We live in patriarchal system. Feudalism and tribalism is at its peak. The basic thinking of people is feudal whether, they live in slums or cottage. People say that, economic empowerment is very important. I know several women who earns, go home, work like slaves and tortured by their husbands. Economical empowerment has failed to give liberal age to women. Natural fundamental rights have not been given to them. Women should get the equal rights. |
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Q: Why women police does not deal with women?
A: Women police is few in number and male police dealing with females leads to exploitation of women. The government should take appropriate measures. There is the same problem, lack of system. |
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Q: Many criminals may need a psychiatrist, infact there a lot of chances of this. So is there a proper department for such criminals?
A: Psychiatry is considered as taboo in our society. It has not been successful here. Even the literate people don't believe in it. There is no such department but, I believe that psychologists should offer help and make association like we lawyers do. We are not properly utilizing them. |
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Q: Has there any law been passed to curb weird tradition of Karo Kari?
A: Yes, there is a law but, law is just a first step. Karo kari is a community sanctioned crime. If you go to that place, where this heinous crime has taken place, you will see the culprit roaming around with great pride and the people of the community considers him the most respectable man. After the crime the feudal lord calls jirga and announces the verdict that, no one from the community will register any case so, what you would do with the law? There is need to educate community so that, the community should oppose it. You have to take several prong approach. There should be a separate team of teachers, doctors, NGOs, social workers and journalists to train people and create awareness among them. |
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Q: There must be any incident which has engraved on your mind. Tell us about it?
A: In 1995, I received an award from Japan, titled as 'outstanding young person of the world'. It was the most memorable moment for me. I was very enthusiastic when I went to Japan. All over the world they declared 10 people as winners. People from 100 countries were there. It you see that award today, it shines bright but, the award I received from Shaukat Aziz in 2006 turned black after few days. Another incident which was engraved on my mind is when in 1995; I submitted my nomination as member Bar Council and got maximum number of votes in the history. The mandate given to me by my community meant a lot to me, even more than that Japanese award. It gave me strength and encouragement. |
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Q: Does your Thursday protest affect the income of ordinary lawyers?
A: Yes, the lawyers earning on daily basis have suffered a lot because, they are committed. They know that they are fighting for Pakistan because; this movement is not only for lawyers but for the whole nation. We fought on streets because courts were closed |
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Q: Judiciary is considered one of the most important pillars of a Civilized Society, but in our country it is felt that courts of law are not free of corruption and political pressure. Why this profession is involved in corruption?
A: I would say that, judiciary is far better than other departments of the government. In any other department, people don't sit in their offices regularly like judges do. There are many honest people in the judiciary. An ordinary civil judge cannot afford government school's fee to educate their children. People in power has deliberately corrupted the judiciary, it wasn't corrupted earlier. Corruption is everywhere, even in the civilized society, judges are convicted. |
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Q: Do you give credit for your success to any one?
A: I give full credit to my mother and my family. |
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Q: In the whole political scenario whom do you admire most?
A: I don't see any bright sparking personality. |
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Q: Do you wish to do something that you have never done before or didn't get the chance for it?
A: I want to work for migrant workers. I want to train defenders so that, they could fight themselves. I want to create awareness among the people, empower them and provide them with basic information. These are my dreams. |
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Q: Anything on which you feel proud of?
A: I really feel happy and proud to establish a helpline like madadgar. If I will get two or three more lives, I would love to do the same work. |
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Q: What are you people and the government doing for the Pakistani prisoners in foreign jails?
A: I am trying my best to establish my office in Dubai to work for these prisoners. We are working for them and we are raising voice for them but, we are not working for them directly. I would love to work for these prisoners; it is my vision, my mission and my dream. |
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Q: What was the purpose behind establishing helpline 'madadgar'?
A: This helpline was established for the first time in Pakistan, for the women and children and we are running it since eight years. The main concept was that, there should be a platform where violence’s victims can have access to justice. It is very successful. Now, we want to establish our helpline in Hyderabad, Sukkur and Larkana. We are looking for partners and by next year inshAllah, you will find our helpline working in those areas too. |
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Q: From where did you get the funds to run madadgar?
A: Our helpline was supported by UNICEF but, now we are working for public fund raising. We want people to see the transparency in our work. We want public involvement. |
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Q: Are you planning to make something like 'Rozan e Zindaan'? Do you think media is playing a positive role in eradicating crime?
A: I don't have time now. Media is playing a positive role. I have worked with media and I am still working. I want to impart my knowledge and provide basic information to the public but, I have many things to look after. |
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Q: How do you see the future of Pakistan?
A: Pakistan's future is bright. The turmoil which we see these days will be over soon. It is an ongoing process. Pakistan and its people are the best and whenever I go abroad I really miss Pakistan. We should work here if, we want a change. |
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Q: Any message for the nation?
A: Just have a positive approach. |
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| We hope that the efforts of Zia Ahmed Awan and madadgar will continue to help the suffering humanity and his campaign will bring a positive change in our society. Aaj Online Exclusive is thankful to Mr. Zia Ahmed Awan for taking out time from his busy schedule and for enlightening us with his thoughts. We wish him all the best. Readers gear up for the new issues, famous personalities and lot more happenings here on Aaj Online Exclusive. See you next time. |
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